Episode Description

With the 2023 college football season in the books, it’s time to reflect on last year’s biggest hires. In this college football podcast episode, Ty and Dan determine invent and arbitrary Vanilla Ice Index and catalog the best and worst problems solves among the class of first year coaches. How do the likes of Colorado’s Deion Sanders, Nebraska’s Matt Rhule, Wisconsin’s Luke Fickell, Auburn’s Hugh Freeze, Louisville’s Jeff Brohm, Arizona State’s Kenny Dillingham, and others rank relative to the field?

Key Moments:

  • 6:58 – Deion Sanders (Colorado Buffaloes)
  • 12:39 – Hugh Freeze (Auburn Tigers)
  • 17:48 – Luke Fickell (Wisconsin Badgers)
  • 25:50 – Matt Rhule (Nebraska Cornhuskers)
  • 32:48 – Jeff Brohm (Louisville Cardinals)
  • 37:32 – Kenny Dillingham (Arizona State Sun Devils)
  • 41:04 – Scott Satterfield (Cincinnati Bearcats)
  • 46:12 – Ryan Walters (Purdue Boilermakers)
  • 48:03 – Brent Key (Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets)
  • 49:48 – Rapid Fire of other coaches (Troy Taylor, David Braun, Jamey Chadwell, GJ Kinne, Alex Golesh, etc)

Welcome to The Solid Verbal.

The Solid Verbal.

Come after me!

I’m a man!

I’m 40!

I’ve heard so many players say, “Well, I want to be happy.”

You want to be happy for a day?

Eat a steak.

It’s that woo woo!

And now, Dan and Ty.

Welcome back to The Solid Verbal, boys and girls.

My name is Ty Hildenbrandt, that fine gentleman, as always over there, the one, the only, still the incomparable Dan Rubenstein.

Welcome back to another week of college football chatter.


My friend, what gives?

What’s good?

I’ll tell you what’s good.


Because the sun came out yesterday.

Also, this is the time of year in which people I know, or kind of know, ask me things like, “Oh, this is probably getting lighter for you, right?

After the season, things probably smoothing out?

Not really recording college football shows anymore?”

And I say to them, “No, no.

Twice a year, three times for our paid subscribers.

We just keep going.

There’s always stuff to talk about.

Coaches are always moving.

There’s portal stuff.

There’s spring football.

There’s recruiting.

There’s looking forward to new coaches or second year coaches or first year coaches and evaluating how things went because there are so many teams.”

And so, you’re really, you’re looking nose-to-tail at the sport over the off season.

There’s always meat to pick at.

There’s always harvesting to be done.

So I say, “You’d think so, but there’s a lot in this sport.

And so, we keep it going.”

We keep it going.

I’m playing this game in protest today.

You just want that?

Before even explaining the game, you want it to be known.

You want to plant your flag immediately.

I want people to know that I am here against my will.

I love you like a brother.

I’m playing this one in protest because we had a prime opportunity to structure the show around one of my all-time favorite dramas, action shows, MacGyver.

We had a great opportunity.

It was there.

It was on a silver plate.

You came up with the concept.

I didn’t.

But you were the one who said “MacGyver” first.

And then you had kind of an epiphany and you said, “How many people listening to this show were around when MacGyver was actually running?”

Which made me feel worse.

Granted, I know they tried to reboot it, but I never miss an opportunity to do a podcast structured around the life and times of Richard Dean Anderson.

And you said, “No let’s do Vanilla Ice instead.”

Yeah, well, I’ll explain why.

You’ll explain why.

You’re giving away the game.

It’s going to take me a little bit to get over that here.

I’ll forgive you, but I just want everybody to know if the show doesn’t go well, don’t blame me, blame him.

Well, I think if the show doesn’t go well in general, I’m generally the one who receives the arrows.

Be nice to yourself.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You’re a big part of this too.

It’s a two-man thing.

I take chances, Ty.

Today, we are evaluating the first-year coaching jobs of head coaches across college football.

And the way I look at the sport and the way I look at the job of a head coach is it’s not somebody who comes in and says, “Here’s my vision.

This is what we’ll do.”

And then if they go 4-8, it means the vision is bad.

Or if they go 9-3, it means the vision is good.

Because especially in this era of college football, it’s about problem solving.

And I think that’s true of anybody that you consider in your life to be smart.

I don’t think it’s because they went to MIT.

I don’t think it’s because they got a 1600 on their SATs.

It’s somebody who’s good at instantly solving problems when faced with a problem.

And so I don’t think head coaches in college football are any different.

The reason that they are hired is generally because the school has a problem of some sort, either because their head coach was hired away, which is sometimes a good problem to be had because the program is successful.

But largely in this sport right now, it’s because somebody was not working out for some reason and there’s that initial problem.

Head coach comes in, says, “Okay, here’s how we’re going to address the problem.”

And then four, five, six games into the season, there’s a new problem that arises that they need to fix to finish strong in year one, which is always an encouraging thing for a coach to do.

And how do they address that problem?

And so I look at the college football head coaching job in year one as a series of micro or big time problems that need to be solved.

And if I’m going to look at anybody across this grand universe who confidently can say, if there’s a problem, you’ll all solve it.

It’s Rob Van Winkle, aka Vanilla Ice, co-writing credits to the band Queen and David Bowie because they wrote that baseline.

So I guess if you don’t like this game, you can also blame Freddie Mercury and Brian May.

I don’t know.

But what I’m looking for here is problem solvers.

And so I want to say, we’re going to go and look at these coaches and say, did they do a vanilla first year job, average replacement level, or were they cool as ice, Ty, in approaching problems and figuring out creative solutions?

How about that?

Vanilla or ice.

Vanilla or ice.

Also, that song came out a long time ago, too.

So you don’t have to feel bad about MacGyver’s age.


I mean, I never miss an opportunity to do the MacGyver thing to talk a little Murdoc on this here podcast.

I think we’ve done it on occasion, but okay.

Vanilla or ice.

And who’s going to be so successful that they’re able to take out a mortgage and put down a down payment on A1A Beachfront Avenue?

That was too far, Ty.

That was a little much.

As I was doing that, I caught myself.

All right.

But yeah, first year coaches are great.

Welcome back to the show, one and all.

Thank you for bearing with us here.

Hit subscribe, hit follow wherever it is you listen to shows.

We would encourage you to go on out to Verballers.com, check out our Patreon.

We rejiggered the tiers, actually.

And so go on out and check those out.

You can, of course, always join the discord, be part of the community.

The conversation has not dried up just because some of the college football stuff isn’t as flowing as it’s been over the last six or seven months.

So we’ve got a vibrant community out there.

We’d encourage everybody to come on out to Verballers.com and check it out.

We’ll play games.

We’ll do bonus content.

A lot of the stuff is going to remain in state, but go and check it out.

If you’re interested in the show and want to help support what Dan and I do.

All right.


You got a sound.

Play the sound.

So song comes out in 1990, which is even older than MacGyver’s last episode.

Just a brutal bit of research from you, but continue.

I like, I like the way that you, you did not come up with the structure for this before we hit record.

I believe you did that on the fly, which is what you’re very good at.

You came up with that on the fly and I do think it makes it a stronger concept than I initially thought.

So I’m still in protest, but continue.

Yeah, we’re going to find the coach who’s the true VIP ready to kick it.

You know that, Ty.

That’s how we talk.

Vanilla or Ice, Deion Sanders?


And I’m going to tell you why.

Deion Sanders, Coach Prime, year one, did enough things around what it takes to be a successful head coach.

Don’t love his high school recruiting.

Don’t love the longevity that I see or don’t see in Boulder, Colorado, especially as they enter into a new conference and what the roster might look like post Shedeur Sanders.

But in terms of the profile that Colorado now has in terms of what Colorado was the worst FBS team, arguably in 2022, they were top five, most improved points per drive, offense points per drive, defense, defense to defense to now.

It’s because they started in a truly awful place.

Yeah, it’s all relative.

It doesn’t mean that their defense was great.

It doesn’t at times.

Our offense was quite strong when Shedeur Sanders had some time, maybe against some of the worst defenses that they played.

But in terms of where this team was at competitively in 2022, where they were at competitively in 2023, obviously it’s well documented how he overhauled the roster, but there’s nothing vanilla about Coach Prime and that there is something exciting.

You could see it working out with a few more steps, right?

That the hires didn’t fully work out.

You know, Charles Kelly’s gone.

Offensive coordinator, Sean Lewis takes the job at San Diego State, the head coaching job.

There’s a lot to question about Colorado, but in terms of improvement, in terms of the sauce in year one, he’s closer to being, to have that, that icy ruthlessness than being replacement level.

I didn’t realize that the defense improved, that it was top five improved on a points per drive basis.

It was still really bad to watch.

Yes, it was still really bad.

But I, but I, to your point, it does kind of give you some guidance on just how bad it was when he took over.

It was 130th in 2022, 3.8 points per drive allowed.

And in 2023, it went up to 2.78, 117th.

So that jump from 3.8 to 2.7.

So it’s a 1.1 fewer points per drive allowed is pretty significant.

That’s really significant, actually.

And I didn’t realize that they had done that.

Well, I mean, I kind of asked Deion as the first subject here in, in like a rhetorical fashion, because we know he’s not vanilla.

There’s nothing about this dude that’s vanilla.

I mean, if you just want to talk about vibes alone, right?

Forget the points per drive and the recruiting and the transfer portal and all that.

I mean, nobody brings more charisma to the job than Deion Sanders.


So you also point out vanilla, a premium spice, not an insult necessarily.

No, no, no, no, no.

But it has that connotation for sure.

I’m with you.

I mean, it’s like he’s, he’s high on our ice index.

If we want to make that a thing to make this even more confusing.


Of course.

But I do think the way that he has used the portal, it is certainly not a new subject on this show or any show.


He used the portal in a really different way.

And there are questions about the sustainability of it, whether it’s something that can continue.

I mean, he’s trying to continue it basically into the ’24 season as well.

But that approach, if nothing more is, is certainly more on the icy side than on.


No, there’s a ruthlessness to how Deion Sanders is handling things.

I mean, look, he, Dan, he came in and he said, I’m bringing my own baggage.


Of course.

He told, he told the existing roster, get the hell out.


And that in that sense alone, whether or not it worked as a separate issue, whether or not it will work in the future, entirely separate issue, but just the manner in which he came in and told the roster, I’m bringing my own baggage.

Like there’s an honesty there.

There’s a ruthlessness there that I think goes along with being icy.

So I’m with you.


So in terms of his first season, like you, you can’t have, it’s not, it is his roster, but generally you want to say this is the vision for a guy, you know, at least two or three years in a competitive with USC that back half of the game, they choke away the Stanford game.

The Arizona game was kind of, it was within reach.

It was a three point game.

Utah was within reach.

It was a six point game.

Now it’s a decimated Utah team, but there was a competitiveness to the new look Colorado team that you have to at least say he took a program that was just floundering and turn them into something splashy.

You see the guys on the sideline, right?

Everything around the program seemed to have been lifted in year one.

I don’t think the health longterm is great and I don’t want to compare him to like a one hit wonder because technically vanilla ice had ninja rap, which I’m sure charted fine.


Um, the job he did year one was irrefutably interesting and I think that counts somewhat, but if I were a Colorado fan, I’d have a lot of questions in year two and year three based on the coaching turnover, based on some in game coaching decisions, based on how close it was against Colorado state.

Like there are still a number of questions to be had, but I’d much rather be in the Colorado Dion position than a number of schools on this list.

Speaking of ice and whatever this index ice index, yeah.

Hugh Freeze, Dan.

Hugh Freeze, get it?

You know, it’s thematic!

It works.

It keeps on working, Ty.

Hugh Freeze.

Um, in terms of your points per drive metrics, your Danalytics, if you will, I believe Auburn was also better on both fronts.

They were.

And specifically on defense, I think we think of Hugh Freeze as an offensive mind, but on on defense, there were profound improvements, definitely more dramatic on that side of the ball for Auburn in ’23, then maybe some expected.

So, I don’t want to compare Hugh Freeze, the on Sanders.

It’s not exactly like-for-like, but we should discuss a little bit the job that Hugh Freeze did at Auburn this past season because took in a bunch of transfers, felt more organized.

I think is what I came out of the season feeling about Auburn football.

Um, Hugh Freeze, speaking of bringing your own baggage, Hugh Freeze is there as well, but for different reasons.


As head football coach at Auburn.

But I think what really came across to me was it just felt like the program was more organized.

It felt like that there’s probably much more of a vision for this than under the previous regime.

And it probably won’t be long before Auburn is at a much more competitive level, especially now that was all before the Saban stuff broke.

But especially now that we kind of have this power vacuum of sorts in the sec and the sec West, I’m not going to sit here and say that Auburn is going to step up and be that team in ’24, but it seems as if it is a little bit more up in the air than would have met the eye, pre-Saban announcement.

Yeah, so you have the situation, the problem that Hugh Freeze initially comes into is Bryan Harsin almost immediately was not the guy at Auburn was not the fit at Auburn roster building wise, culture wise.

It just didn’t seem like very quickly.

It didn’t seem like it was going to work out.

And so he’s starting behind in that regard.

Obviously he’s had some success as a head coach, both within the sec and otherwise.

Uh, and the other problem is just like not an obvious quarterback on the roster to be a bowl winning or a bowl attending program, right?

It’s a Robbie Ashford situation.

You have Cadillac Williams as an interim guy, like they play hard, they fight whatever in 2022, but if Hugh Freeze is known for like his speedy offense and getting speed and space and the RPOs, like there was no obvious guy to run it.

They get Payton Thorne later on in the process with obvious limitations, um, given recent Michigan State, uh, success or lack thereof.

Uh, but I thought they were creative enough on offense for the most part, right?

Giving Georgia some hassle, being a miraculous play away from winning the iron bowl in year one, uh, New Mexico state, once again, Diego Pavia game, notwithstanding it, there was a lot to like about the creativity and problem solving nature of an Auburn offense that really didn’t have an answer, an interesting answer at quarterback.

And then you couple that with playmakers on defense, I think a, a decently savvy hire in Ron Roberts, which obviously he’s now moved on, that it’s, I think a pretty good job in year one, the recruiting has been there.

The aggression in the portal seems to be there.

And I think it’s a lot TBD in terms of the future at quarterback, which is significant, but I would say in this moment, especially given the changing nature of the sec with now Alabama moving on Texas, A&M moving on, uh, Mississippi State hiring a new coach, especially in that part of the sec that closer to ice than vanilla with you freeze.


I mean, a top 25 defense, if we’re going off of the SP+ the offense, the offense had issues, right?

It’s going to take some time.

That’s not the kind of overnight rebuild that some schools got on this list.

We’ll talk about them, but I think all things considered Hugh Freeze as a football coach coming into Auburn, definitely proving to be a better fit than the previous guy.

And Bryan Harsin, you know, just if only culturally, it seems like it’s going to work a lot better than it did with Harsin.

I give him credit to some extent for at least realizing it quickly and deciding to move on because that’s the kind of thing that sets programs back five, six, seven years.

They moved on pretty quickly.

We’ll, you know, we’ll obviously see how things shake out here in the near term, but yeah, where we, by the way, we’re recording this, what, 48 hours before technically the official signing day, uh, Auburn with the number eight class in the country.


One, five star, 14, four stars.

And so we’ll see how often he’s stringing together those types of classes.

He’s got a quarterback of the future in this class and Walker white.

Um, so early returns are that what he’s selling with regards to Auburn football is resonating.

And so I, yeah, I say definitely closer to ice than vanilla.

This is going to sound very mean, but when I think of Luke Fickell, I think ultra vanilla.


Well, you’re also dealing with a coach and arguably the dairy capital of America.

That’s what I’m saying.

That’s what I’m talking about.


I like Luke.

Luke Fickell might be the best coach on this list.

And the job that he did year one at Wisconsin, like defense got a little bit worse than the previous season.

The offense, I think we wanted more on offense.

Remember Tanner Mordecai comes in as a transfer and he dealt with some injuries, but it didn’t feel like the offense really got fully rebooted.

And Phil Longo came up.

Remember from North Carolina?

It was like, wow, they’re going to open this up a little bit.

Didn’t really take flight.

I mean, quarterback injury affects that.

Tanner Mordecai out for the time he was, and it was just, it was not to be with Braedyn Locke under center as an upper tier, Big Ten offense.

So I think Luke Fickell is an interesting point for discussion here.


You and I are going to be shaded a little bit by the fact that we both fundamentally believe that this guy is too good of a coach to be kept down for long.

I agree.

That even if this wasn’t a great first season for Wisconsin, the guy knows how to build a team.

He knows how, I mean, he built Cincinnati into a playoff team.

Lord knows what he can do at Wisconsin.

Where are you at with Fickell?

I’m still working this out in my head at time of recording.

Where are you at on Fickell?

If we’re talking in terms of vanilla, in terms of just the job he did in year one, just the job he did in year one, just the job he did in year one, he’s been aggressive in the portal.

There’s an uphill battle in terms of Wisconsin and branding and offense.

And it’s tough to sell Wisconsin as a quarterback destination because of how people look at the program and have looked at the program in recent years that like, well, you’re going to throw it to some tight ends.

Sometimes you’re going to do a lot of handing off in a power-based offense.

And so the problem that Luke Fickell inherited was a branding one in as much as or as much as anything else.

So he hires Phil Longo.

He tries to go after receivers in the portal dealing with, you know, Tanner Mordecai seems like a pretty savvy addition or seem like a pretty savvy addition given the success he had through the air in year one.

So like I think he did a lot of what he should have done considering the problem he was faced with and then the big problem he was faced with during the year is, you know, his team just doesn’t have a lot of guys on offense and Tanner Mordecai gets injured.

And so altogether, I’m sort of going to go like on the fence with Luke Fickell in year one.

Like I’m still very much a believer, but also like bringing in TVD.

I don’t know if that like shot me out of my seat.

If I’m a Wisconsin fan.

You’re an anti-TVD’er.

In this moment, with like the unforgivable thing to me is a quarterback that’s just continuously sloppy with the ball.


And that was like the issue we had with Jeff Sims coming into Nebraska and we’ll get to Matt Rhule.

We’re just like, ah, TVD like this is what is this really going to do for Wisconsin’s offense and happy to be wrong, thrilled to be wrong as Wisconsin is looking to establish itself as an interesting team in a new look Big Ten.

But I’m squarely between the vanilla and the ice here.

I’m squarely there because of the quarterback situation and they still have what will Pauling and Bryson Green at receiver the transfers in last year who were fine.

But I think I still think it’s a good hire, but I can’t go as far as saying it’s vanilla and I can’t go as far as it’s saying thus far an icy move.

Yeah, it’s not so much.

It’s not so much TVD as it is TBD.

Yeah, with Luke Fickell at this good one time.

Thank you.

I worked on that.

I was I was workshopping that you have like scratching it out on your notebook in front of you.

Should I should I not?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I even stumbled my way through it. 7-5 regular season a year ago.

Look, I think he will do a couple things there.

I think he will first and foremost eventually change the offense.

It’s not going to be the Paul Chryst ground and pound offense for long.

I mean, he’s he’s signaled intent that he wants to try and open things up a little bit more and it, you know, varying results this past season.

But I think that will happen in due course.

And the the second thing I think that that he will do is just raise the raise the floor a bit on this program.

That’s not to say it was in a bad spot when he took over.

I think Wisconsin we had grown accustomed to Wisconsin being one of the more stable programs in college football.

Frustratingly so for Wisconsin fans, it was always the same thing kind of year in and year out.

But I think he will establish a new baseline.

And like you said, he’s been aggressive in the portal.

I think he’s done a good job, generally speaking, on the recruiting trail.

It’s something like ten four stars this past good this past cycle as they should.

Wisconsin should be a destination.

Yeah, I mean, I think, of course, the proof is going to be in the pudding, right?

Like you we talked about the schedule when we did the show with Ari last week and this season they’ve got games against Alabama.

They’ve got games at USC, Oregon.

Yeah, they’re playing Penn State.

They’re at Iowa.

Who knows what Iowa will be like hosting Oregon, as you said.

And there are some other games on here that I think could be losable depending on whether Nebraska gets better depending on what version of Rutgers they get when they traveled to Piscataway middle of the season.

Like I’m not necessarily counting on those as losses, but I think there are plenty of opportunities here for Wisconsin to drop a couple games.

Maybe that you wouldn’t think that they should.

Sure, but I have no idea what they’re going to be this year.

But in terms of what they did last year, the good that I’m going to give Luke Fickell and the staff and this team, whatever, however you want to define this, I’m going to give them one tick towards ice rather than sitting squarely in the middle of the meter.

No, it’s the defense was especially atrocious against Northwestern.

Absolutely shredded by Northwestern third and longs like the worst kind of shredded and then they bounce back and you know, it has to do with quarterback health as well, but they bounce back and they beat what Minnesota and who do they beat?

And it was Minnesota and somebody in the final or Minnesota’s the final week of the season Nebraska.

Yeah, so it’s at Minnesota and they beat Nebraska and the offense definitely look like it had a pulse against LSU and everybody’s offense looks like it has a pulse against LSU’s 2023 defense.

But I think that’s a good sign for the program and program health when you’re able to bounce back from that from sort of rock bottom immediately.

So that’s why I’m going to give them a tick towards ice.

How about I and I’ll give them that because the defense.

SP+ sixth overall defense.

Sure this past season.

I would always rather start from that place.

Yes, then maybe from the place now, Colorado may be in a different category altogether because they were starting from rock bottom, but I would much rather be in a position where you’re starting with a good defense that doesn’t give up big plays.

I mean they did to Northwestern in like week 10, right?

But I would almost always rather have that as the bedrock.

It’s a good starting point.


Yeah, I think that’s a good starting point.

So we’ll see I I think I’m with you.

I’m kind of in the middle between the vanilla and the ice.

I just don’t think you can let Cincinnati Luke Fickell color the job in either direction.

He did near one like it should be evaluated in a vacuum to me which coach you want to go to next.

Let’s go about Rhule.

Let’s stay in the conference, Rhule.

Another high profile dude.

Defense is way better.

For Nebraska, it was a good defense offense was worse.

They had all sorts of issues on that squad quarterback.

I mean the line you name it.

It just didn’t work on offense and I think they’re trying to resolve that side of things, right?

Not the least of which is getting Dylan Raiola to flip his commitment from Georgia.

Presumably to be the starting quarterback.

We’ll see how that goes right out of the shoot for for Nebraska, but some of their youth that they brought up via the transfer portal last year along the line, you know, just kind of started to integrate them a little bit towards the end of the season.

We’ll see more of I think the dividends on that front going into 2024.

So I mean Matt Rhule just in terms of being a vibes guy was definitely on the icier side of this.

All right, Matt Rhule learned how to use social media.

Sure, upon getting this job with Nebraska, which was really the upset of the year in the Big Ten West for my money.

Yeah, I think generally the vibe that I have gotten from Nebraska people that that right into the show that subscribe to the patron and whatnot was that people are content to take a wait-and-see approach because as opposed to the Scott Frost experiment, which always to some extent felt like a bit of an experiment a guy who knew Nebraska a guy who had crafted better offenses elsewhere, but it didn’t seem like as much of a proven entity is a guy like a rule.

They’re willing to give this guy a little bit longer of a leash, even though much of the same frustration to be fair stuck with the program, right?

There were still close losses.

There were still those moments where they’re shooting themselves in the foot that these things they need to get past.

It just people that wrote into us seemed more inclined to give rule the benefit of the doubt.

Do you agree?



So if it’s more towards vanilla, they finish out the season.

They don’t go to a bowl game.

Once again, they finish out the season averaging 13 points a game on offense with backup quarterback right November.

I think it was they went between steps scoring 17 and 10 points.

And so that’s a huge disappointment in terms of where this offense is certainly the ability to sell the future and bringing in Dylan Riola who obviously is a legacy a double legacy is encouraging that whatever Matt Rhule is selling is resonating and whatever the collective is buying is resonating.

But I don’t know where like they’re not going to be able to keep Tony White probably for a year after this year.

This is probably the final year of Tony White whose name came up with a lot of high profile jobs in the sport considering some of the success he had at Syracuse, ASU, and now Nebraska running his 3-3-5.

And so I think the vibes moving forward should be pretty icy defensively that Matt Rhule is going to have an eye for both defensive hires and for defensive players and Nebraska is going to be able to string together year over year good defenses like the vibe should be good like Nebraska should be annually in bowl games, which is an improvement.

So yes, you got a skew icy with that way of thinking.

But now where is the evidence that Matt Rhule has an eye for an offensive coordinator?

Where is the evidence that Matt Rhule has an eye for an offensive vision?

Where is the evidence for Matt Rhule having an eye for quarterbacks thriving on a Matt rhule team?

He’s that to me.

Yes, he’s he’s trading a little bit on past success at Temple at Baylor not offensive and quarterback success, not offensive and quarterback success, but just general success, right?

The the year one experience under Matt Rhule.

I think it Nebraska was way better than I expected.


So I’ll give him that, you know, even if the vision isn’t entirely clear.

This has been a guy that at least on the college level has been very good at by the time he gets a year three transforming a program, right?

That’s part of what got him to the NFL as a head coach.

That’s certainly what brought him back to college as a head coach out of Nebraska.

He has that track record for turning programs around just might take a little bit.

Yeah, here’s the issue though.

It’s take Matt rhule’s name out of it and a coach who fielded a good defense in Nebraska and lost a bunch of close games against disappointing opponents, right?

Is not all that different than the guy he replaced.

Yeah, so I agree that the vibes are clearly better than where they were.

The problem that he took on and taking that job is, the vibes were bad man in Lincoln.

The vibes are just down and bad because everybody wanted it to work out with Scott Frost and very clearly didn’t and it didn’t immediately as they entered into the 2022 season as he’s let go early.

So what he was able to accomplish in year one was reverse the vibes, but the on-field results were eerily similar.

And so yes, bringing in Dylan Raiola bringing in, I think it’s what a top 20 class right now Nebraska, which seems to be better than what Scott Frost was able to accomplish consistently in Lincoln, though.

I don’t have their recruiting history in front of me.

I’m going to another tick towards icy, but I’m being very careful and I’m keeping my eye on Tahiti and Madagascar for that expensive vanilla tie.

I really am.

I mean the the line we talked about this because I think we did a bonus episode where we broke down what was going on in Nebraska out on Patreon, but there are some truly eye-popping statistics about the quarterback play and I think as a result of the line, the line was really bad.



No, he needs time.

He has earned time.

They will improve.


Yeah, here are two of the more ridiculous stats from Nebraska quarterback player from this past season.

Okay, are they going to flow like a harpoon daily and nightly these stats?

I hope so.

No quarterback on the roster had more touchdowns thrown than interceptions.

Hmm, right?

The closest was Heinrich.

You’re rooting the vibes.

H squared.

Yeah, seven touchdowns, seven interceptions and all quarterbacks and roster got sacked in alarming amount of times.

11.3% of the drop backs were sacks for H squared 9.6% for Jeff Sims and Chubba Purdy when he got in there got sacked a little bit less, but still 6.6% of the time.

That’s a lot.

Yeah, it’s a lot.

It’s difficult.

You look at like Anthony Grant’s numbers, maybe a little bit lower than people expected.

That’s probably a big part of the reason why the line was just really bad.

So they got to improve that.

I think they know that and you know, I think I think Matt rules got a bit of a track record for improving that side of things as well.

So yeah, I’m tick icy here in a good way.

So next Jeff Brohm.

I think anytime you can step in in year one, bring in a quarterback that probably doesn’t have a number of an amount of huge expectation behind him and take your team to a conference championship game.

I think it’s even if you’re not a big believer in Louisville moving forward, which I think you should be a like there’ll be a consistent bowl team.

They’ll be interesting.

They’ll give you know, some heavyweights trouble.

I think the Jeff Brohm experience is going to remain consistent, but to do that in year one, I think all things considered like an overwhelming success even with the way the season ended.

This is this is as far on the ice scale as I can go towards ice like this in a vacuum.

Yeah, in a vacuum.


But like everything he did turn to gold, whether it was Jack Plummer.

Remember everybody kind of rolled their eyes when it was like, oh, wait, Jack put it in there.

Jack Plummer is going to be the quarterback this year.


And Jack Plummer had a pretty good season.

Like it wasn’t perfect, but Jack Plummer, Jack Plummer had a really nice year and threw a nice deep ball when they needed it most.

I mean, he he stepped up and was a quick fit in that offense.

Even what they got out like Jawhar Jordan.

Jawhar Jordan was a big game player, a home run hitter.

I remember talking about that with respect to the Notre Dame game.

That scared the crap out of me.

Now, I didn’t think they would beat Notre Dame, but Jawhar Jordan played a big role in the way that Louisville beat Notre Dame.

Well, it was a lot.

They ran out of gas around Thanksgiving, but it was a lot of winning the losable.

Even week one, winning the losable is a huge talent for a head coach, his staff, his team, whatever in year one.

And before running out of gas, you probably have to beat a team down to a backup or third string quarterback, whatever.

Before running out of gas, the Kentucky game wasn’t pretty.

Obviously the bowl game getting shredded by Miller Moss, whatever.

Bowls mean so much less now.

I think Louisville, there was that certain talent of being well coached.

Everybody’s playing out there.

Would they be NC State 13-10 on a Thursday or Friday night?

Win the losable after we get done talking about Matt Rhule.

That’s a big deal.

And so in a vacuum, yes, absolutely.

I see year one.


The other thing that I like that he has done is, and I remember calling this out again, a couple episodes ago, and we talked about Mike Norvell.

I think we were talking about the portal.

It just, it really seems like he has a pretty good understanding for how to balance this.

It’s not, it’s not too heavy one way or the other with respect to portal versus high school recruiting versus whatever else.

It seems to be a very balanced approach to talent acquisition.

And honestly, given the first year that he had in the ACC and given where I think that conference is at as a whole, like Florida State has risen quickly.

Florida State is the team to beat.

I don’t know what to expect out of Clemson moving forward.

It’s obviously still a very, very good roster, but outside of those two teams, both of which I think are a little bit more of a known quantity, I don’t know what North Carolina is going to be moving forward.

I don’t know what Syracuse, what Virginia Tech, what NC State, what Duke, what Cal, any of these teams.

I don’t know what any of them, Miami, Miami is a huge unknown.

I don’t know what any of these teams are moving forward.

So if you’re Jeff Brohm, and if you’re able to, I think, raise the floor on that roster, if you’re able to provide depth, which was kind of my whole thesis when we talked about this last time, it seems like he is raising the floor on the depth of the roster and giving them more depth.

If you’re able to do all of those things, I think next year’s schedule is a little bit harder.

But by and large in the ACC, I just look around at the landscape and I say, “What is the competition here?

What is to prevent this team from winning nine games a year?”

I don’t know.

I really don’t.


Look, cooked MC like a pound of bacon, right?

Mario Cristobal, right?


That’s a pretty good, Ty.

Come on.

It’s not bad.

I’m still playing in protest, but not bad.

It’s okay.

Next coach.

All right.

So we agree, Jeff Brohm pretty much on the icy side of this thing.


When we started talking about this episode as a possible MacGyver theme, the one that came up first in my mind was Kenny Dillingham.


So it was predominantly because of the game where he was running the swinging gate offense and didn’t have a quarterback.

It seems as if given roster restrictions and given issues that he had stepping foot in Tempe, A, he wanted the job more than anybody else, which I think is value.

And B, he figured out a way to make it work.

Like they didn’t win a whole lot of games, but they played damn hard for him.

And more than anything else, I tend to look at that as like a precursor for what’s to come.

So I think Kenny Dillingham is actually much more on the icy side of this than vanilla.

There was nothing vanilla about Arizona state football this past year with the injuries he dealt with, with the new names he was working in and just trying to fill out a roster.

Like he had a bunch of problems that he had to frankly, MacGyver, use it as a verb in order to make this season tick.

I think he did a pretty good job of it, all things considered.


So the problem he faces immediately is a fully drained roster following the Herm Edwards era, and that’s going to be just a reality for a number of programs moving forward, whether it’s because of a coach getting fired, whether it’s because of a coach leaving, whether it’s because of, you know, a roster looking especially attractive to portal assassins, whatever.

I remember the tweet where it was just like, here’s what the 2021 Arizona state team had.

And it was like Jayden Daniels, Johnny Wilson, Ricky Pearsall, Rachaad White, who just like really strong players everywhere.

And then you look at what was inherited in Tempe and it was just like, man, Kenny Dillingham has his work cut out for him, you know, bringing in Drew Pyne or whatever from Notre Dame landing on getting a quarterback of the future and Jaden Rashada after everything that happened with Florida and Miami or whatever.

But all things considered with the number of players he brought in in the portal, he brings in a pretty active younger recruiting staff.

Offensive coordinator certainly doesn’t work out in Beau Baldwin.

So, you know, that’s a take in the direction of vanilla.

But I don’t know.

I thought you could see the bones of something interesting in Tempe.

Now, who knows what they look like in a new conference.

But I still think that’s always going to be an attractive place.

Kenny Dillingham, I think, is going to be continue to be an able recruiter, both in the portal and on the trail.

And so it’s hard in year one because of where that roster was just an especially weird place that it was really attractive and then really just depleted.

So yeah, I’m going a couple ticks in the direction of encouraging iciness for Kenny Dillingham, especially given that, you know, they’re not going to be in a conference with whatever Washington was last year, whatever Oregon was last year, you know, recruiting against USC in that same area for playing in the same conference, whatever.

Like I think it’s a it’s a more open question with ASU in the Big 12 and that they’re not necessarily recruiting against a superpower in that conference with Texas and Oklahoma leaving.


So I think there’s opportunity.

They’re still going to be recruiting against USC, Oregon, Washington, whoever.

But in terms of the job he did last year, they beat UCLA last year, running a weird swinging gate offensive line situation.

That’s what I’m talking about.

So solving the problem of roster and just looking competitive more often than they probably should have hiring, I think, in a somewhat savvy way.

Yeah, I think closer to icy than vanilla for sure.

We have we have, I think, teetered too much on the side of ice.

OK, so let’s go to Scott Satterfield.

Let’s go.

Is that what you want to do?

Dude, I’m looking at this sheet that you want to go to Tahiti.

I am looking at this sheet and I am I am zeroed in laser focused on Scott Satterfield and you bring up on the vanilla side of things.

I’m not a Satterfield believer.

I’m just not.

I don’t know why.

I know why he took the job because I think he was on the verge of getting fired at Louisville.


And so when when Luke Fickell left to take Wisconsin and Cincinnati move quickly or maybe it was Satterfield’s people, I don’t know.

Somebody moved very quickly.

To bring him a bit north and take the job.

I have not been in on this since day one.

And you know this.

I remember you chastised me in the early part of the season when I said Cincinnati is going to be one of, if not the worst team in the Big 12.

There’s a team that went 3-9.

There’s a team that won two games early against Eastern Kentucky and won the Pitt game on the road when they beat Pitt.

I remember you and I had a conversation or like, wow, like maybe we got to because we thought Pitt was going to be decent.

At that point in time, Pitt was not.

The pit that I think we had hoped for.

Otherwise, Cincinnati lost after that week two game against Pitt.

They lost 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 in a row before beating Houston on the road and then lost their last two at West Virginia and Kansas.

So partially that could have been a schedule that.

Maybe it was harder than we thought.

I don’t know.

But I think in large part it was.

Luke Fickell left.

The talent was going to be a concern at Cincinnati.

And all told, like we just didn’t really think Scott Satterfield was that good of a coach.

He was good in his previous stop.

It didn’t really work at Louisville.

It was a lot of the same for, you know, four or five years, however long he was there.

And so to bring that north to Cincinnati to me was always a bit suspect.

So I’m still very much in the vanilla side with the Satterfield move.

It’s also uninspired from the Cincinnati administration itself.

And so there was always going to be a drop off considering the talent level that was moving on to the NFL after the playoff year.

That just those corners, the pass rush, the guys on offense, Jerome Ford, all that, like the guys that really nailed it for Cincinnati that hung around that Luke Fickell nailed it in the portal that the roster was going to need a lot of work just because of the amount of star power that was gone and how hard it might be to replenish at a place like Cincinnati on that level.

But the hire itself is extremely vanilla.

And the results, especially in the 2023 Big 12, when you looked at like, you know, Kansas State is down, TCU is down like West Virginia filled the vacuum and West Virginia was fine.

And it was an inspired year for the Mountaineers.

It saved their coaches job.

It saved Neal Brown’s job.

But West Virginia wins what eight games last year.

Yeah, like for a new team in the conference, it was always going to be a struggle, right?

Stepping up new opponents, you know, you’re not familiar with everything.

But there was opportunity for Cincinnati to do something in the portal with an inspired hire and give some teams some trouble.

And they just were immediately a non issue to the rest of the conference.

Do you think do you think it is harder or easier for a new coach to come in and change the system in the way that Satterfield did?

Or do you think it is easier for a guy like a Neal Brown who was already there, who for all intents and purposes completely changed the offense in a singular offseason?

So it’s more difficult for Satterfield just because he didn’t recruit those guys.

And it’s a team stepping into a new situation.

So getting used to a new conference, whereas the self scouting is got to be just easier for Neal Brown.

And now he’s dealing with quarterback injury.

Obviously Cincinnati dealing with rotating quarterbacks like there’s a lot of overlap in the issues that both of these teams face.

But West Virginia had a much easier time adjusting on the fly.

I think I agree with that, but we’re a few years into this Neil Brown thing now.

At West Virginia, it’s tough to reinvent yourself.

It’s tough to reinvent yourself when you’ve recruited to, I think, systems that were different than what they ran on offense this past season.

Now they steered into what their strengths were.

And that I think was the genius of what Neal Brown did and why he’s going to keep his job while he had the Duke’s Mayo dumped on him.

And so there’s probably a case to be made that starting a new somewhere with that fresh start maybe gives you a better opportunity to run something completely different and have success with it.

Whatever the case, Satterfield did not have success with it.

He did not have success with it.

They were starting Emory Jones.

It was not a good offense.

It was not a good deal.

Like it’s just, it wasn’t good all around.

So I agree.

Scott Satterfield is sort of like our vanilla king here with respect to this conversation.

What do you think about Ryan Walters at Purdue?

I skew vanilla as well.

You hire Graham Harrell.

You talk about West Virginia, hire Graham Harrell to run your offense.

And I thought bringing in Hudson card, you know, had a good enough upside opportunity.

It didn’t work out at least until the end of the year.

But the good thing about Ryan Walters is you look at the, the point to which Illinois’ defense fell this past year.

And a lot of that is, you know, talent off to the NFL.

What a top 10 corner, I think in the NFL draft and Weatherspoon.

But I didn’t hate the hire, but the offensive coordinator move was going to be so crucial and to bring in Graham Harrell, who is, you know, Johnny Vanillaseed everywhere he goes, just replacing offense with disappointment.

That’s the big thing with Purdue.

So I think Purdue has been like weirdly strong on the, the recruiting trail right now.

Like I think Ryan Walters is like put in some work, which is interestingly enough, interesting enough.

So I’m not full dramatic vanilla here, but yeah, the, the Graham Harrell thing, the, the way the manner in which they lost where they didn’t seem competitive.

Some of the key players they lost in the portal is not a great sign.

Doesn’t necessarily reflect poorly on him.

You know, it’s sometimes it’s just a dollars and cents thing with guys upping their, their profile with strong play and then looking for, you know, commiserate money.

But yeah, I don’t think the vibes are especially interesting or fun in West Lafayette in this moment after last year.

I think I’m with you on that one.

Shout out Eric on Patreon who keeps us fully up to date with all things Purdue football.

We appreciate his, his insight.

You mentioned Brent Key earlier.

So Brent Key, Brent Key maybe isn’t, maybe he doesn’t belong in this group because he was the interim.


First full season.

But first full season is I think, I think I go like two ticks in the direction of ice.

I think so.

I think I go two ticks in the direction of ice.

Like there is clearly a lot to iron out on the Georgia tech side, but bringing over Haynes King worked, that was a good move.

Worked for both Georgia tech and the stats of DBs across the ACC.


Uh huh.

But they were spicy, you know, and that’s, that’s the thing that I really zone in.

I really hone in on.


You know, I’m a vibes guy, man.

And I just feel like 24, Ty.

Brent Key brings the vibes, you know, I’m in on Georgia Tech.

I don’t know to what extent you said what two ticks to towards, towards iciness.


I think that’s about right.

I think they’re interesting.

I think they have an interesting ceiling.

We’ll see what they are long-term at quarterback.

We’ll see what they are long-term at tackling ACC players.

Cause that seemed to be a pretty significant issue.

That was this past year as the defense took a pretty significant dip back from the Geoff Collins era.

Um, but yeah, overall with where Georgia tech is as a program, where the ACC is and was in 2023 that in year one, if you’re playing with a good deal of fire, I think that reflects well on the head coach and the staff and how the roster was constructed in the off season.

So yeah, I think closer to ice for sure.

All right, let’s do rapid fire.

Let’s do a couple of guys.

Rapid fire.

Troy Taylor at Stanford.

I think the vibes are pretty good.

The recruiting seems to be good.

Um, the comeback against, uh, Colorado certainly raised his profile.

Um, I forget exactly how they finished out the year, but all things considered, I’d with the difficulty of that job in terms of the portal era and now playing across the country in the ACC, like it’s an uphill battle, but I’d, I’d go a tip positive, a tick positive.


I think, uh, they were interesting, right?

They were interesting.

I think he, he’s proven kind of in his career that he’s willing to adjust to the personnel.

And I think it took a little bit to figure out what that was at Stanford.


But it was interesting.

It was nothing if not interesting.

They lost five of six to finish out the year.

They go three and nine overall.

They had a nice first half against Oregon.

I mentioned the comeback.

Um, they had like a weird fourth down, miss-not-conversion against Washington in that game, a trick play that was absolutely there.


But yeah, we’re going to need to see what the roster looks like.

So this is just kind of on a wing and a prayer a little bit that Troy Taylor is going to work out at Stanford, which is like a uniquely challenging job that some guys have figured out brilliantly and guys see powerhouse Stanford, ACC powerhouse Stanford.

Um, but in this era, like it doesn’t seem like they’re going to be huge and a NIL players or yeah.

Uh, and portal is going to be nearly impossible.

But in terms of Troy Taylor specifically, I think he’s the right guy to get them consistently bowling.

Yeah, I’m there.

All right.

Who else?

Who else we got on this list?

Uh, if pokey, if good vibes, good vibes, great vibes, always great vibe.

David Braun, David Braun.

I mean, definitely great vibes around David Braun.


What, I mean, what else is there to point to in February on the North shore of Chicago, then I see this.

So yeah, the, the, both sides of the ball get better.

They win, losable games.

They surprise everybody.

There’s zero expectations, uh, after what happened in August.

So yeah, David Braun absolutely needs, you know, taken from interim to full time, absolute icy vibes.

Jamey Chadwell went to a Fiesta bowl.

It’s hard to top that.

So he’s, he’s pretty much on the icy side of this as well.

Hard to fully gauge what Liberty was last year because of the schedule.

But yeah, year one, you go undefeated regular season.


Can’t look at that in a vanilla way.

I’m obsessed with GJ Kinne at Texas State.


Did a great job offensively rebooting things.

Is he the next Baylor head coach?




Probably going to get a bigger job before long was very aggressive in the portal, which is part of why I found him interesting in the preseason and it worked.

It’s hard to make that work to the extent that hard to replicate year over year.

Very hard.


Very, very difficult to replicate.

At least it worked once.

So I give him that and a very like Western Kentucky-ish approach to the.


And Texas state was kind of down bad in terms of how competitive they weren’t.

And so that sort of job year one, I think reflects really well on him and it will reflect really well in the same way.

Like what Jeff Traylor has done at UTSA, like these jobs in that area, in the Big 12 in the SEC are going to continue to open.

And so his I think his profile is raised and that’s that’s thanks to a quick year one.

I think if we’re talking of this again in terms of like ice on one side and vanilla on the other, I think Tim Beck is driving the vanilla truck.

I think he is the vanilla delivery guy in this conversation for Coastal Carolina.

Um, what got, but something got better.

Like defense got dramatically better, right?

The defense got better.

The defense took a step forward, went up by like 15, 20 spots in the SP+.

It still wasn’t great relative to the rest of college football.

One year they beat up, stayed on the road.


Beat up, stayed on the road.

I just like, it’s hard for me to look at this offense and feel good about the state of affairs of Coastal Carolina, especially after watching what Jamie Chadwell did.

Um, technically speaking from a statistical perspective, it was better this past year than it was in 2022 under Chadwell, but I, circumstances were also different.

And I just think we know enough about Tim Beck to know that this isn’t like an offense to be excited about.

So for me, he’s driving the trees like he’s driving the mist.

I don’t have the sound here, but he’s driving the Mr.

Softee vanilla truck.

See, I’m, I’m squarely neutral here.

I don’t have the vanilla vibes.

I think you’re using Tim Beck’s coordinator history against him and I am, I, they were fun.

They won six of eight to finish out the year, including a bowl win.

So if Coastal Carolina, look, he’s going to be measured against Jamie Chadwell.

He’s going to be measured against the fun of whatever was 2020, but at the same time, winning is better than losing.

And he got what they got destroyed by James Madison.

You should lose to James Madison, maybe not be destroyed by them.

They lose to army as well, which is tricky.

All things considered year one in taking over in a very specific system.

I thought he was fine.

Any other names here that you want to call out quickly on your, but in terms of first year guys and vibes, let me, let me load up.

I mean, Alex Golesh, we talked defense got way better.


We talked about USF.

It might’ve, that game might’ve broken Nick Saban’s career.


By the way, you know who the defensive coordinator is for USF on that crazy improved defense, Todd Orlando, Todd Orlando, just finding no niche.


Didn’t work out at USC.

Didn’t work out at Texas in the end, but you know, maybe as a group of five coordinator, he was great at Utah state strong at Houston.

This is like a soap opera, man.

When you like kill off the characters and they just keep coming back, they invent ways to bring them back into the plot.

Todd Orlando still around.

Well, it’s just right.

It’s finding dudes.

It’s it was the old joke we made about Jim Chaney.

Like your offense might not be great, but it’s going to be fine.


So Todd Orlando, especially at a G5 place that just is sort of starting from scratch after you know, a kind of disastrous Jeff Scott era that like you can get talent and they portaled super hard with Alex Golesh.

Like they’re going to be fine.

And so I thought the job that he did, especially, look, you’re going to talk a little bit of shit at the end of like a, a great bowl game.

The vibes are to me.

And we talked about this last week.

USF vibes are strong right now.

And so build a stadium, healthy ice, healthy for Alex Golesh.

Never heard that before.

All right.

Look, solidverbal at gmail dot com.

Right in.

Let us know where you’re at on these guys.

Let us know anybody that we missed.

You want to talk a little Eric Morris, talk a little trend deal for Lance Taylor.

I don’t know.

Barry Odom, whoever.

Write in, solidverbal at gmail dot com.

Hit us up on social media.

Let’s say, let us know where we are right, where we’re wrong, where you come down on any Kevin Wilson, Brian Newberry, Kenny Burns.

I think the Barry Odom vibes are icy right now.

Now they lose their quarterback and Jayden Maiava.

He’s off to USC.

But when a, when somebody goes to a place that traditionally just can’t figure it out in a year, one, the guy’s like, let’s try these couple of things and hire as well.

I think the Barry Odom vibes, depending on what happens at quarterback at UNLV, depending on how long he’s there, because you go to another bowl game at UNLV, he’s just going to be the new head coach at, you know, enter Big 12 school or whatever here.

So that’s somebody I would say like clear ice to me.


Losing Maiava.

That hurts.

But nonetheless, write in, let us know. solidverbal at gmail dot com.

Check out Verballers.com.

Of course, that is the Patreon.

You can help support what Dan and I do get ad free episodes, get bonus episodes, get access to all of what we’ve got planned here in the off season.

I will say that the lab, we started up the lab.

It took us a few weeks to kind of recalibrate after a season of, thank you.

Thank you.

Play the sound.

Of course, we needed a little bit of time to kind of catch our breath after the game stopped being played.

Of course, there’s been news.

We’ve been covering it as best we can here in the on demand format that is podcasting.

But now that we’ve had a chance to kind of get our sea legs, the lab is definitely cooking.

So we’ve got all sorts of fun ideas here for the off season, going into the regular season.

It’s going to be a big year of football.

I don’t think there’s any two ways about it in 2024 with so much changing.

So we just know that we are hard at work coming up with creative ways to cover all this for the verbalerhood.

Ice Ice Baby was the first hip hop single to top the billboard charts.

And this is, and I quote, this is Wikipedia, has been credited with helping to diversify hip hop by introducing it to a mainstream audience.

He’s an American Music Award winner, a Kids Choice Award winner, a Soul Train Award nominee tie.

No Grammys.

Nominated but no, he did not win.

I think he was nominated for best new artist.

To the extreme became the fastest selling hip hop album of all time.

Ranking 16 weeks at number one on the Billboard 200.

Good for him.

It’s a great Wikipedia.

Rob Van Winkle.

Rob Van Winkle.


Real name.

Had an explicit book with Madonna.


Appeared in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2, The Secret of the Ooze.

I mean, there’s a lot here.

A lot of meat on the off season bone.

A lot of meat on the Rob Van Winkle Vanilla Ice early 90s bone.

On that note, on that note for that guy over there, my good friend, Dan Rubenstein for myself, Ty Hildenbrandt.

Thanks for joining us on this odyssey through year one college football coaches.

Did you own it?

Did you own the single?

No, I wasn’t a vanilla ice fan.

And yet you still shave the lines into the side of your head?

The lasers?

I didn’t go lasers.

I never did lasers.

I’m picturing it looking great.

For me, for him, you know the drill.

Stay solid.

We’ll talk to you all soon.

Peace. (upbeat music)

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